This may seem off-topic, but bear with me for a moment...
It's interesting that Applescript comes up in this context because
there's a couple threads about how Applescript is failure in terms of
being English-like but still having a strict and largely undocumented
syntax.
While everyone learns differently, I agree with the assessment that
it's important to teach the principles rather than the language first.
When I decided I needed to learn Applescript (and programming in
general) I started to use Applescript, I just couldn't figure it out.
I then learned RB, came back to Applescript, and then it made a lot
more sense. I feel that's because I was able to find better teaching
materials from RB about programming principles first and the language
was just a tool used to teach them (see the grades 9-12 curr. on their
website for what I mean). After two years, I still pound my head on my
desk a lot more often than I do with RB, and that's mainly because of
the English-like, strict, undocumented syntax.
I do feel that Applescript now survives for larger reasons than a
programmer standing on someone's desk. I'm in book publishing, and I
use Applescript every day with the Adobe Creative Suite and it saves
my department tens of thousands of dollars each year in production
costs. If Apple were to kill Applescript, we would be forced to
abandon the Macintosh for all of our automated production and move
over to Windows using Javascript or Visual Basic, and so would a vast
majority of service bureaus, compositors, and the like. That's a
massive market to just let go without any recourse or Mac-native
alternative, and the associated costs to do so would be blow to
Apple's reputation.
If Real could get their foot into Adobe's door and integrate like they
do with MS Office, that would be like...wow...
cheers
--
Philip Regan
pregan at gmail dot com
http://homepage.mac.com/pregan
RB 5.5.5/2005, Mac OS 10.3.9, Mac-centric development
On 9/30/05, Alex Lindsay <alindsay at mac dot com> wrote:
> I have always thought that the more flexible and forgiving the syntax,
> the better the language is for learning. I also believe that flexible
> syntax is often a bane as the complexity of a project increases,
> especially when more than one developer works on the project.
>
> I have also thought that one of the more intuitive languages out there
> is AppleScript. Almost anyone reading AppleScript for the first time
> can understand it. Unfortunate, AppleScript is used mostly for
> automating other applications, and how those applications respond often
> muddies the waters!
>
> I think that AppleScript would make a great teaching language if the
> proper context and IDE were provided.
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Alex Lindsay
> On Sep 30, 2005, at 12:06 AM, R Charles Flickinger wrote:
>
> >
> > Hi
> >
> >> I absolutely believe learning a real programming language is the
> >> proper
> >> aproach.
> >
> > I find this an interesting statement, as many "programmers" in the
> > latter '80s did not consider Apple's HyperCard to be a "real
> > programming" language. Yet school-age children were "programming" all
> > kinds of software solutions with HyperCard that caught the attention
> > of the adults.
> >
> > I have Computer Chronicles videos that offer objective proof.
> >
> > I won't say RB is so tough to grasp it is beyond a school kid's
> > ability to understand, but I have not seen any evidence it has
> > inspired children of any age as much as Apple's HyperCard did.
> >
> > Has RB made it to Computer Chronicles? Demoed by school kids? God
> > forbid, adults might never consider using it!! "Software for Kids" is
> > a label no one wants on their product, yet many will advert at one
> > time or another that their product is great for kids to learn on.
> >
> > I believe the environment still exists today; programmers DO NOT want
> > to see this technology accessible to run-of-the-mill society, and
> > probably for many valid and invalid reasons. HyperCard made the
> > technology insanely accessible, and programmers will never let that
> > happen ever again.
> >
> > Everything I learned about programming, using HyperCard, applied to
> > when I learned JavaScript, which in turn applied to what I learned
> > using REALbasic. I will say that had I had the knowledge these
> > technologies provided for me, I might not have figured out REALbasic
> > in as short a time, and solo to boot.
> >
> > Yours truly
> >
> > R Charles Flickinger
> > Corona Developer: http://www.designersdomain.com/corona
> > Daktari Developer: http://www.designersdomain.com/daktari
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
>
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